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welcome to the skeptic zone the podcast

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hello and welcome to the skeptic zone

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episode number 289 for the 4th of May

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2014 there's that music yes made the

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fourth be with you that sort of thing

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Richard Saunders here with you from

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Sydney Australia coming up on this

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week's episode of the skeptic so no more

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Star Wars instead we have a grain of

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salt with Iran's again this week I run

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is chatting to susan goreck and mark

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edward from the guerrilla skepticism

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outreach sort of our enterprise and

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Susan and Mark were guests at the QED

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convention in Manchester following that

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it's a week in science from the Royal

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Institution of Australia at ww RI a USDA

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you and then for a change of pace a few

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little things that the skeptics gone up

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to in the past week a group of us went

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out to see a talk by dr. Carl Cruiser

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nitschke dr. Carl very famous in

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Australia he sort of Australia's answer

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to Bill Nile Bill Nye is sort of

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Australia's answer to dr. Carl I'm not

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sure how it works we went along to see a

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public talk by dr. Colin had a bit of a

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chat amongst ourselves waiting for

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autographs and photographs and after

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that's something very different again

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indeed are we all go to skeptics in the

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pub and a group of us are reviewing our

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videos from the archive some videos

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going back over 20 years skeptical

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themed videos and we're going to play an

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excerpt from a talk show in Australia in

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the early 90s called couchman where a

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whole group of astrologers and a whole

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group of skeptics got together for a

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chat a blast from the past a look inside

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the thinking of some astrologers coming

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up later in the show then the round off

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the show it's evidence please with Joe

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alabaster Joe is going to read the

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public statement warning about the

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Australian vaccination skeptics Network

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Inc from the healthcare Complaints

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Commission wow they really go to town on

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the the anti-vaxxers going to read the

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full statement and why they came out

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with this public warning to give you an

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insight into their thinking now those of

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you in

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melbourne you might want to run along to

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the Maury Alex skeptics or the Maury

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meet up the mortise skeptics they call

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it Morty skeptics in the pub I was down

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there earlier in the year i think it was

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it was it late last year sometime in the

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past i went down to speak their the the

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Morty skeptics what a great time I had

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so now it's your chance to visit if you

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haven't done so before tuesday the sixth

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of may so this coming tuesday at seven

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thirty you can hear a mounted eval from

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canberra talking about skeptical

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activism now if you just google more d

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alec sporting club skeptics or more tea

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skeptics you should be able to find

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details about that talk but i'll

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certainly put a link on the the show

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notes at skeptic zone TV on this week's

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episode but now it's time for me to run

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downstairs open up the fridge get some

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of that Greek yogurt out that plain

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Greek yogurt put it into a bowl and

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pouring a little bit of maple syrup and

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mix that up not bad not a bad snack not

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bad well I'm doing that I hope you enjoy

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let's all take this with a grain of salt

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he's around ticket i'm here with Susan

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Kovac hello Susan hello it was so lovely

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to meet you finally I know that is

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really great yeah anyway so we've spent

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mother / city quite a bit over time

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you've spent quite a bit of time on

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stage together some of it was with me

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most of it was about me can you tell me

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what what you talked about and what you

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participated oh my gosh the first panel

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on you and I ron was how to talk to

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believers how to how to get the message

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across to people who are the believers

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and that was phenomenal great advice and

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we had Samantha as well as Marshall and

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you and I yes and then it's going to be

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noisy here we're in the corridor sorry

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after QED and the next lecture I gave

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was the lecture on guerrilla skepticism

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on wikipedia which I was on the main

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stage for and we've been having a blast

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just absolute life's a lot of my

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teammates are here yeah no I must

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because we've just basically stepped out

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of the last talk in the closing of cutie

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I think you would both agree that this

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was a fantastic on fence absolutely

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fantastic just tiny little tweaks I

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would make but other than that this is

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an extremely well run and a blast two

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snaps a blast okay now I want to talk to

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you a little bit about about you first

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and then we'll talk about things that

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you do so you've you've spoken to

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Richard and not a very long time ago

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actually only about three or four months

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ago you weren't thinking you were

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undergoing chemotherapy at the moment at

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the time I am I just finished my chemo

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uh-huh and how are you feeling I'm great

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i finished my radiation

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and I have a little problems with my

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fingernails not growing back quite yet

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once they're growing back my hair

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starting to grow back everybody seems

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like my hairstyle as it is right now

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some kind of contemplating and not

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cutting it very much but my help is

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great I am as active as I always was and

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it's very difficult to keep up with me

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excellent very good so you led to hear

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about that I want to ask you a few

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things about the things that you do sure

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um and I think I don't want to rehash

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the whole the you know I mean think

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people know what guerrilla skepticism

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unless you go it is a night it's quite

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well known by now but over the over the

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last few days what I when I was watching

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the tweets the Twittersphere okay I've

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noticed some criticisms and I wanted to

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ask you about this because I haven't

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heard anything yet happening so so one

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of the things that I've heard was that

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you're fair a lot to my team and and I

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do and and several people commented on

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the fact that it should be a

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collaborative effort and not it's not

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your team and oh is it your team or is

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it I couldn't is it a group of people

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working together so what is that isn't

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that the same in my view a team of

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people is the collaboration I think it's

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more about the fact that you say my team

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rather than our team or we or I guess

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you know I go back and forth on my blog

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our blog my team I'll you know and I

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don't know I really haven't thought

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about it much because it is my baby I

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mean I give 40 hours 50 hours a week to

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this project so is my whims things I

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think of and then they take things and

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go with it and it's it's been fabulous

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having it but yeah I am the leader of

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this group so but I do have some

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extremely important people in the group

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that I have all my passwords my keys

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everything to everything they know

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what's going on so that they're able to

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if something were to happen to me they

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could easily take over and it we go okay

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and and another comment that I saw was

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related to the overall attitude to the

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question of which which comes to

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discussion that we had yesterday when we

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were both on a panel about how do you

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approach believers and you know that is

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that that whole range from smack them on

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the head 22 softly softly and very

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accommodating and what where do you

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stand on that and what would you prefer

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to see and when we're talking about

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people in general just just mr. mrs.

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public or whatever I think that we just

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need to get the facts out there I think

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that's the important thing and just just

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the facts and just constantly restate

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your your argument of whatever it is if

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they're making a claim for something

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then you would say again and again so

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your claim is explained to me more

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detail don't get off into a tangent just

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let's keep to the facts what is it that

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you're actually trying to claim so then

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if you're talking to a friend or a

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family member or somebody that you feel

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might be harming themselves with

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something pick your battles and keep an

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open mind and try to approach him in a

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roundabout way maybe not directly saying

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that they should be believing what you

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believe because you say so but let's

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look at the evidence and and still keep

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it in a gentle way song other than like

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going to a psychics to these grief

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vampires shows or something like that

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again you shouldn't be talking to the

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believers so much you should be trying

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to you know other than maybe letting

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them know that there is something going

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on but you really should be going after

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this psychic or the con person or the

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medical quack whatever those are the

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people you need to get to because when

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you when you let them know we're here

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we're invisible you don't know who we

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are then it really kind of makes it so

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that's more difficult for them to

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continued being a performer okay so that

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the station mark mark gave a talk about

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you know your partner Mark and Mark I'd

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would also gave a talk about that about

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how to approach these situations about

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gave some examples with videos from a

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demonstration against Sylvia Browne

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right so

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so these are situations and people

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actually yeah that I think they'll be

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dreaming about this door so so the so

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this example that got mark gave was

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something where you actually go to your

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demonstrator doing it's all the effects

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of a demonstration demonstration is

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sometimes effective when it's just just

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stand there with signs but very often

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being rowdy and noisy and maybe a little

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bit of process it helps you that since I

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wanted to ask you though is other

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situations when it's it's a good idea to

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be rowdy and obnoxious on the web when

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it's not in those situations when you're

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actually standing there in front of a

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Sylvia Browne that just kind of depends

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I guess we're talking about a cancer a

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quack or something like that well I

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think that when you're talking about the

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people who are the family members were

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actually in having problems with their

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believers and they're desperate and so

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on we shouldn't have any we should never

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engage with them no engagement

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whatsoever with the families we should

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only be talking to the staff and to the

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end to those people so I guess it just

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depends I online we really don't engage

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much with a Wikipedia project all were

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doing is just other things that you do

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apart from Wikipedia oh yeah oh my god

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oh yes okay we have the skeptic Action

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project which is a something that

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everybody can follow on twitter facebook

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or google+ and it's one suggestion a day

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we send out it usually a paranormal URL

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and a person will receive that URL and

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we asked them to rate it using web of

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trust using rib butter and what you're

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doing is you're going to the website

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looking at over reading it for yourself

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in deciding is this a trustworthy site

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is this a site that I think children

271
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should be going to and you rate it and

272
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if you feel like leaving every butter

273
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than which you would do is you would you

274
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would find a counter argument for the

275
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page that that of your url we gave you

276
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and independently one person at a time

277
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this is making no difference but we have

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over five I think almost 700 people who

279
00:12:07,449 --> 00:12:05,720
were on this project and when you have a

280
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group of seven hundred people all giving

281
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their opinion about a homeopathy page or

282
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whatever

283
00:12:15,400 --> 00:12:13,040
her then that's a very strong statement

284
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anybody else in the world who tries to

285
00:12:20,290 --> 00:12:17,860
access that with that one single URL

286
00:12:22,480 --> 00:12:20,300
they're going to get you know a face

287
00:12:24,310 --> 00:12:22,490
full of hey this is not a trustworthy

288
00:12:25,900 --> 00:12:24,320
site this is not a place that you should

289
00:12:28,060 --> 00:12:25,910
be you know there's here's all these r

290
00:12:30,100 --> 00:12:28,070
abutters to this page this is not safe

291
00:12:31,990 --> 00:12:30,110
this is a very dangerous page beware

292
00:12:34,810 --> 00:12:32,000
beware beware don't even bother going

293
00:12:35,680 --> 00:12:34,820
here and so we do that project I'm also

294
00:12:37,510 --> 00:12:35,690
involved in the independent

295
00:12:41,050 --> 00:12:37,520
investigations group which has a hundred

296
00:12:42,490 --> 00:12:41,060
thousand dollars for a paranormal any

297
00:12:44,020 --> 00:12:42,500
claim of paranormal some very

298
00:12:48,310 --> 00:12:44,030
comfortable talking to people don't have

299
00:12:49,270 --> 00:12:48,320
a claim for thee everybody absolutely

300
00:12:50,620 --> 00:12:49,280
right so we have a

301
00:12:56,860 --> 00:12:50,630
hundred-thousand-dollar challenge for

302
00:12:58,600 --> 00:12:56,870
that and then I also run Monterey County

303
00:13:00,640 --> 00:12:58,610
skeptics which is a social group in

304
00:13:04,590 --> 00:13:00,650
salinas california monterey county area

305
00:13:07,840 --> 00:13:04,600
which is very near san francisco and i

306
00:13:09,880 --> 00:13:07,850
also have been a lot and involved a lot

307
00:13:13,570 --> 00:13:09,890
with a brazil ski patient paint chip

308
00:13:17,040 --> 00:13:13,580
clinic involvement I'm I'm all over the

309
00:13:21,610 --> 00:13:17,050
place ok so no I was so so far of

310
00:13:25,860 --> 00:13:21,620
calculated about a hundred and seventy

311
00:13:28,300 --> 00:13:25,870
two hours there's 168 I was in a week so

312
00:13:30,750 --> 00:13:28,310
so how do you how do you get all of this

313
00:13:34,060 --> 00:13:30,760
done and when and when do you eat oh I

314
00:13:37,990 --> 00:13:34,070
live and I've lost a lot of my appetite

315
00:13:39,430 --> 00:13:38,000
so I don't have a lot of them they don't

316
00:13:40,600 --> 00:13:39,440
tell you whenever you have cancer

317
00:13:43,390 --> 00:13:40,610
treatment do you lose a lot of your

318
00:13:44,890 --> 00:13:43,400
taste buds I don't watch I rarely watch

319
00:13:47,140 --> 00:13:44,900
movies I hardly ever get to read

320
00:13:53,920 --> 00:13:47,150
anything that's non skeptic related and

321
00:13:56,200 --> 00:13:53,930
I work and garden and I'm not a Martha

322
00:13:59,020 --> 00:13:56,210
Stewart type person so okay so get a lot

323
00:14:00,820 --> 00:13:59,030
done yeah okay so we've just been

324
00:14:03,340 --> 00:14:00,830
talking about the number of hours Susan

325
00:14:05,550 --> 00:14:03,350
puts into the skeptical work and we've

326
00:14:07,660 --> 00:14:05,560
just been joined by mark Edward who is

327
00:14:08,980 --> 00:14:07,670
Susan's partner maybe you could move

328
00:14:11,710 --> 00:14:08,990
closer to us so that I can be more

329
00:14:15,110 --> 00:14:11,720
easily record in there mark mark has his

330
00:14:20,320 --> 00:14:15,120
own skeptical credentials and

331
00:14:22,400 --> 00:14:20,330
and you gave a talk today about how to

332
00:14:26,630 --> 00:14:22,410
basically had to demonstrate became

333
00:14:29,870 --> 00:14:26,640
psyche yeah so with with a very very

334
00:14:32,540 --> 00:14:29,880
loud video about how you demonstrated

335
00:14:34,250 --> 00:14:32,550
against Sylvia Browne at uh basically at

336
00:14:37,760 --> 00:14:34,260
a moment's notice seemed to work too

337
00:14:39,470 --> 00:14:37,770
she's gone oh yeah I wouldn't take

338
00:14:42,440 --> 00:14:39,480
responsibility for that you know you're

339
00:14:44,000 --> 00:14:42,450
the police might do so I'm just having

340
00:14:48,769 --> 00:14:44,010
to do this like you know get yeah

341
00:14:50,090 --> 00:14:48,779
there's enough to do it yeah so so so

342
00:14:52,160 --> 00:14:50,100
you can you tell us a little bit more

343
00:14:55,519 --> 00:14:52,170
about the talk that you gave well I'm

344
00:14:59,030 --> 00:14:55,529
just my whole thing is do something stop

345
00:15:01,160 --> 00:14:59,040
listening to people talk about it okay

346
00:15:03,110 --> 00:15:01,170
of course of course it's always knew

347
00:15:04,760 --> 00:15:03,120
there are new people who come into the

348
00:15:09,019 --> 00:15:04,770
skeptical movement who have never been

349
00:15:11,180 --> 00:15:09,029
to a lecture about skepticism and I

350
00:15:13,400 --> 00:15:11,190
think that's necessary but for me and I

351
00:15:16,460 --> 00:15:13,410
think Susan as well at a certain point

352
00:15:19,400 --> 00:15:16,470
we had to find something to do because

353
00:15:22,880 --> 00:15:19,410
we wanted to be more active than passive

354
00:15:24,410 --> 00:15:22,890
in terms of taking it all in so my whole

355
00:15:27,220 --> 00:15:24,420
thing is get out there and do something

356
00:15:30,079 --> 00:15:27,230
even if it like person Susan's case she

357
00:15:32,570 --> 00:15:30,089
works on Wikipedia she stays home in her

358
00:15:34,940 --> 00:15:32,580
pajamas and has her cats around her and

359
00:15:36,920 --> 00:15:34,950
nobody bothers her she gets a lot of

360
00:15:40,310 --> 00:15:36,930
work that goes all over the world out

361
00:15:42,980 --> 00:15:40,320
for me I I'm a street performer as a

362
00:15:46,400 --> 00:15:42,990
magician so I like to get out in the

363
00:15:48,500 --> 00:15:46,410
street and be based face of people and I

364
00:15:51,019 --> 00:15:48,510
don't have a problem with that and it's

365
00:15:53,060 --> 00:15:51,029
very exciting so that's it's a spectrum

366
00:15:57,620 --> 00:15:53,070
you know you find your find your niche

367
00:15:59,120 --> 00:15:57,630
on the spectrum of anger yes I actually

368
00:16:01,550 --> 00:15:59,130
wanted to ask you about that that

369
00:16:04,220 --> 00:16:01,560
spectrum of anger yes I think it's a

370
00:16:07,250 --> 00:16:04,230
very important question marsh for

371
00:16:09,470 --> 00:16:07,260
example has a podcast I'm called be

372
00:16:11,449 --> 00:16:09,480
reasonable Ryan which he and Haley

373
00:16:14,750 --> 00:16:11,459
Stevens from the Greater Manchester

374
00:16:16,910 --> 00:16:14,760
skeptics I'll talk to they're not just

375
00:16:20,300 --> 00:16:16,920
believe is the peddlers of all kinds of

376
00:16:23,240 --> 00:16:20,310
right right wacky stuff and some of them

377
00:16:24,920 --> 00:16:23,250
can be quite infuriating in some cases

378
00:16:26,270 --> 00:16:24,930
simply because the the arguments they

379
00:16:28,190 --> 00:16:26,280
make the stories they tell are quite

380
00:16:28,610 --> 00:16:28,200
silly right in other cases because

381
00:16:31,330 --> 00:16:28,620
they're actually

382
00:16:33,710 --> 00:16:31,340
quite damaging like a guy who pickets

383
00:16:35,990 --> 00:16:33,720
abortion clinics all right stuff like

384
00:16:38,600 --> 00:16:36,000
that but in all cases the way the way

385
00:16:40,880 --> 00:16:38,610
marsh and Haley choose to do is they try

386
00:16:43,100 --> 00:16:40,890
to understand what the person is

387
00:16:43,970 --> 00:16:43,110
thinking they do not attack they don't

388
00:16:46,340 --> 00:16:43,980
know give answers they do ask

389
00:16:48,700 --> 00:16:46,350
challenging questions yeah but they ask

390
00:16:51,260 --> 00:16:48,710
them very politely and basically try to

391
00:16:52,850 --> 00:16:51,270
at most give the person enough rope to

392
00:16:55,340 --> 00:16:52,860
hang themselves but they do not actually

393
00:16:57,440 --> 00:16:55,350
they do not serve as the executioner

394
00:16:59,060 --> 00:16:57,450
right so this is obviously not your

395
00:17:01,460 --> 00:16:59,070
approach but but I'm just wondering what

396
00:17:04,070 --> 00:17:01,470
you think about that approach I'm tired

397
00:17:06,500 --> 00:17:04,080
of that I already know III already I

398
00:17:08,690 --> 00:17:06,510
already know that that we need to

399
00:17:11,660 --> 00:17:08,700
understand it and I think I'm at the

400
00:17:13,880 --> 00:17:11,670
point where I just don't have any pay I

401
00:17:15,290 --> 00:17:13,890
don't have time so maybe I'm maybe i

402
00:17:18,170 --> 00:17:15,300
should clarify i'm not asking your

403
00:17:21,470 --> 00:17:18,180
attitude as per I mean we all have you

404
00:17:23,600 --> 00:17:21,480
know it's likely the V atheism scale you

405
00:17:25,460 --> 00:17:23,610
know but like though and few lemonade

406
00:17:27,590 --> 00:17:25,470
okay but I don't really didn't reframe

407
00:17:29,510 --> 00:17:27,600
the question yeah so I don't feel a need

408
00:17:31,160 --> 00:17:29,520
to talk too much about 80 s a mother I

409
00:17:33,830 --> 00:17:31,170
don't feel they really like really need

410
00:17:35,840 --> 00:17:33,840
to push ATM so so I'm not asking you for

411
00:17:37,460 --> 00:17:35,850
your attitude for yourself I must need

412
00:17:38,810 --> 00:17:37,470
for attitude in terms of what this

413
00:17:41,450 --> 00:17:38,820
skeptical movement should be doing well

414
00:17:44,210 --> 00:17:41,460
there's room for every every everybody

415
00:17:45,980 --> 00:17:44,220
yeah yeah I don't I don't want to make

416
00:17:47,510 --> 00:17:45,990
it sound like I would leave their

417
00:17:51,110 --> 00:17:47,520
approach out i think it's just as

418
00:17:53,180 --> 00:17:51,120
important ok so it's part of the

419
00:17:55,880 --> 00:17:53,190
movement there it's a big big i hate to

420
00:17:58,610 --> 00:17:55,890
use the term tent but we're all in the

421
00:18:03,740 --> 00:17:58,620
same event together you know and we have

422
00:18:06,620 --> 00:18:03,750
to work together it just for me i don't

423
00:18:09,200 --> 00:18:06,630
i just can't sit still and listen to the

424
00:18:10,820 --> 00:18:09,210
like you said the silliness yeah so I

425
00:18:13,100 --> 00:18:10,830
want to ask both of you actually a

426
00:18:14,450 --> 00:18:13,110
question and that's uh you've mentioned

427
00:18:17,030 --> 00:18:14,460
the word tent I have to ask that

428
00:18:18,770 --> 00:18:17,040
question you're both from the active in

429
00:18:21,530 --> 00:18:18,780
the u.s. skeptical scene which is seen

430
00:18:23,180 --> 00:18:21,540
the tent being like there's clearly a

431
00:18:24,740 --> 00:18:23,190
fight happening i mean i'm outside the

432
00:18:25,880 --> 00:18:24,750
tent i can't really see through the

433
00:18:27,620 --> 00:18:25,890
walls of the tent but there's clearly

434
00:18:31,040 --> 00:18:27,630
something bad happening inside that time

435
00:18:33,410 --> 00:18:31,050
so I'm just wondering whether what you

436
00:18:35,240 --> 00:18:33,420
feel about this and I don't want to go

437
00:18:37,520 --> 00:18:35,250
into any of the details it's more about

438
00:18:39,410 --> 00:18:37,530
to you know how the relationships are

439
00:18:41,060 --> 00:18:39,420
there are going and about whether the 10

440
00:18:42,860 --> 00:18:41,070
should or should not be

441
00:18:44,600 --> 00:18:42,870
moved to accommodate shall I talk first

442
00:18:45,830 --> 00:18:44,610
I love mask the question better but you

443
00:18:48,320 --> 00:18:45,840
see I'm waiting to see where he goes

444
00:18:50,090 --> 00:18:48,330
with this okay now I I just want to know

445
00:18:51,409 --> 00:18:50,100
your opinion it's an open question about

446
00:18:52,789 --> 00:18:51,419
your opinion about what's happening in

447
00:18:56,029 --> 00:18:52,799
the u.s. skeptical scene at the moment

448
00:18:57,710 --> 00:18:56,039
but there's so much which pick one who

449
00:19:00,440 --> 00:18:57,720
here we talk not I'm talking about the

450
00:19:02,480 --> 00:19:00,450
non skeptical stuff oh oh you're talking

451
00:19:05,180 --> 00:19:02,490
about all the drama all the drama oh

452
00:19:08,720 --> 00:19:05,190
that ok so not necessarily ok so there's

453
00:19:10,909 --> 00:19:08,730
so much going on on board I think that

454
00:19:14,570 --> 00:19:10,919
way ok for I know for a certain fact

455
00:19:17,149 --> 00:19:14,580
that it is really distracting it is so

456
00:19:19,430 --> 00:19:17,159
distracting on Facebook and Twitter and

457
00:19:21,649 --> 00:19:19,440
so on people get distracted about what

458
00:19:23,269 --> 00:19:21,659
people are saying and they're not paying

459
00:19:24,980 --> 00:19:23,279
attention to what the real picture is

460
00:19:27,830 --> 00:19:24,990
like for example when those women were

461
00:19:29,659 --> 00:19:27,840
released in Ohio they escaped from the

462
00:19:32,360 --> 00:19:29,669
house and Sylvia Browne had recently

463
00:19:34,009 --> 00:19:32,370
last few years had had talked to one of

464
00:19:36,889 --> 00:19:34,019
the mothers and said that your child

465
00:19:40,220 --> 00:19:36,899
would never be found she's dead Amanda

466
00:19:42,350 --> 00:19:40,230
berry yeah so the world the absolute

467
00:19:45,499 --> 00:19:42,360
world was so furious with Sylvia Browne

468
00:19:47,090 --> 00:19:45,509
the numbers people were just they took

469
00:19:49,100 --> 00:19:47,100
down her Twitter account in her facebook

470
00:19:51,499 --> 00:19:49,110
account because the world was so angry

471
00:19:53,210 --> 00:19:51,509
at Sylvia Browne they did not understand

472
00:19:54,860 --> 00:19:53,220
all the background that we in the

473
00:19:57,139 --> 00:19:54,870
skeptic community have on Sylvia Browne

474
00:19:59,269 --> 00:19:57,149
they were just reacting how horrible

475
00:20:01,340 --> 00:19:59,279
this was but what happened and I have

476
00:20:03,999 --> 00:20:01,350
facts I should I show the spikes of

477
00:20:09,169 --> 00:20:04,009
Sylvia Browns Wikipedia pages went

478
00:20:11,149 --> 00:20:09,179
thousands of times the spike of hits was

479
00:20:12,879 --> 00:20:11,159
incredible amount of people who actually

480
00:20:15,289 --> 00:20:12,889
were going and visiting your wicker

481
00:20:16,730 --> 00:20:15,299
Wikipedia page meant that the world was

482
00:20:19,970 --> 00:20:16,740
looking at Sylvia Browne for the very

483
00:20:21,529 --> 00:20:19,980
first time I'm myself and several other

484
00:20:23,930 --> 00:20:21,539
people at see if I and other places

485
00:20:26,869 --> 00:20:23,940
we're screaming let's do something we

486
00:20:28,759 --> 00:20:26,879
here's some concrete things we can do to

487
00:20:30,350 --> 00:20:28,769
finalize it to put the nail in the

488
00:20:31,789 --> 00:20:30,360
coffin for this woman to make it so

489
00:20:34,399 --> 00:20:31,799
she's never able to do another casino

490
00:20:36,049 --> 00:20:34,409
show sell another blender any of that

491
00:20:37,940 --> 00:20:36,059
here is what we're going to do and i'm

492
00:20:40,549 --> 00:20:37,950
posting and I everybody else of posting

493
00:20:41,570 --> 00:20:40,559
and the world in the skeptic community

494
00:20:43,669 --> 00:20:41,580
that people who have all the knowledge

495
00:20:46,399 --> 00:20:43,679
and all the skills said nothing because

496
00:20:49,580 --> 00:20:46,409
they were busy watching a drama between

497
00:20:51,940 --> 00:20:49,590
pz myers and somebody else who were

498
00:20:54,519 --> 00:20:51,950
going back and forth about the tent and

499
00:20:56,019 --> 00:20:54,529
skeptic 10 an atheist tent and there one

500
00:20:57,879 --> 00:20:56,029
back and forth and they're like did you

501
00:21:00,549 --> 00:20:57,889
see what he said did you see what he

502
00:21:02,230 --> 00:21:00,559
said oh my gosh I'm on so on suicide oh

503
00:21:05,169 --> 00:21:02,240
no I think he meant this by that and it

504
00:21:07,090 --> 00:21:05,179
was just like hello people we are here

505
00:21:10,120 --> 00:21:07,100
for a totally different reason I could

506
00:21:12,460 --> 00:21:10,130
give a flying you know what we can be a

507
00:21:15,039 --> 00:21:12,470
business okay yeah about what's going on

508
00:21:18,299 --> 00:21:15,049
with those people over there who I am

509
00:21:21,340 --> 00:21:18,309
their opinion to me is not important

510
00:21:23,740 --> 00:21:21,350
what is important is Sylvia Browne is

511
00:21:27,399 --> 00:21:23,750
vulnerable at this moment we have it

512
00:21:31,180 --> 00:21:27,409
most maybe two days let's take advantage

513
00:21:33,580 --> 00:21:31,190
of this moment okay good good okay so I

514
00:21:36,190 --> 00:21:33,590
i agree with susan and here's here's the

515
00:21:39,789 --> 00:21:36,200
bottom line on that i think the people

516
00:21:41,860 --> 00:21:39,799
who are the real doers are going to keep

517
00:21:44,680 --> 00:21:41,870
doing what they do regardless of the

518
00:21:47,350 --> 00:21:44,690
drama and if the tent folds at somebody

519
00:21:49,090 --> 00:21:47,360
else's problem because if you don't

520
00:21:52,149 --> 00:21:49,100
involve yourself in it and you keep

521
00:21:55,029 --> 00:21:52,159
doing what you know the real work is and

522
00:21:57,639 --> 00:21:55,039
by now we all know what the real work is

523
00:22:00,039 --> 00:21:57,649
it has nothing to do with the politics

524
00:22:03,460 --> 00:22:00,049
and all these other things so to me it

525
00:22:06,700 --> 00:22:03,470
just shines a light on the inefficiency

526
00:22:08,769 --> 00:22:06,710
of the movement as it is it's time to

527
00:22:11,560 --> 00:22:08,779
move on and if that's the way it has to

528
00:22:13,899 --> 00:22:11,570
change so be it and the people who want

529
00:22:16,629 --> 00:22:13,909
to keep keep up with that sort of waste

530
00:22:18,610 --> 00:22:16,639
of time to me it's a waste of time the

531
00:22:20,200 --> 00:22:18,620
people who are really working we'll keep

532
00:22:22,509 --> 00:22:20,210
working and I'm not going to mention any

533
00:22:24,000 --> 00:22:22,519
names but I know for a fact that there

534
00:22:28,060 --> 00:22:24,010
are people who are out there working

535
00:22:29,740 --> 00:22:28,070
very hard to get rational and critical

536
00:22:32,980 --> 00:22:29,750
thinking going I really don't think

537
00:22:35,320 --> 00:22:32,990
somebody like James Randi cares a bit

538
00:22:39,029 --> 00:22:35,330
about it he's home writing every day

539
00:22:43,149 --> 00:22:39,039
he's available for television and radio

540
00:22:44,799 --> 00:22:43,159
he's out there he is he's these in my

541
00:22:46,720 --> 00:22:44,809
opinion I think part of the problem is

542
00:22:49,539 --> 00:22:46,730
there's not going to be another Randy

543
00:22:52,060 --> 00:22:49,549
and without a without a figurehead

544
00:22:54,970 --> 00:22:52,070
without somebody who has the showmanship

545
00:22:57,399 --> 00:22:54,980
and the ability to guide a movement in

546
00:22:59,529 --> 00:22:57,409
the direction that he has for these many

547
00:23:02,650 --> 00:22:59,539
years it's going to fall apart anyway

548
00:23:06,020 --> 00:23:02,660
because these people are not profession

549
00:23:07,820 --> 00:23:06,030
okay one more thing i would just the 10

550
00:23:09,860 --> 00:23:07,830
thing the drama thing just irritates the

551
00:23:13,370 --> 00:23:09,870
heck out of me one of the main problems

552
00:23:15,200 --> 00:23:13,380
i'm finding with it is is that i know

553
00:23:17,630 --> 00:23:15,210
all sorts of people in the skeptic

554
00:23:20,390 --> 00:23:17,640
community and they know me you I'm so

555
00:23:25,310 --> 00:23:20,400
easy to get ahold of if somebody has a

556
00:23:26,990 --> 00:23:25,320
problem with something i'm doing a you

557
00:23:30,560 --> 00:23:27,000
know this we would you said about this

558
00:23:32,300 --> 00:23:30,570
on my team thing this is the first I've

559
00:23:33,980 --> 00:23:32,310
heard of it is what she said so I'm

560
00:23:36,170 --> 00:23:33,990
dying to go see what it is somebody's

561
00:23:38,030 --> 00:23:36,180
writing about me and this discussion if

562
00:23:40,400 --> 00:23:38,040
there is somebody else I don't even have

563
00:23:42,620 --> 00:23:40,410
a clue that could possibly be but if

564
00:23:45,050 --> 00:23:42,630
there is a discussion going on then I

565
00:23:46,940 --> 00:23:45,060
would appreciate it as a professional

566
00:23:49,460 --> 00:23:46,950
human being that you know pert law

567
00:23:51,110 --> 00:23:49,470
profession me being as a professional I

568
00:23:53,330 --> 00:23:51,120
would think that they'd have the respect

569
00:23:55,880 --> 00:23:53,340
to come to me and say Susan you know I

570
00:23:58,130 --> 00:23:55,890
have a question about how you use the

571
00:24:01,460 --> 00:23:58,140
word team all the time and how you say I

572
00:24:03,170 --> 00:24:01,470
and my project and so on can you explain

573
00:24:05,600 --> 00:24:03,180
a little bit more in detail but you mean

574
00:24:07,970 --> 00:24:05,610
by that but what I'm finding is it's

575
00:24:10,430 --> 00:24:07,980
like talking to Rupert sheldrick and and

576
00:24:12,680 --> 00:24:10,440
Deepak Chopra their blogging about it

577
00:24:14,930 --> 00:24:12,690
not and just having a discussion

578
00:24:18,410 --> 00:24:14,940
somewhere as if I don't exist is if I'm

579
00:24:20,000 --> 00:24:18,420
like like some just somebody just like

580
00:24:21,170 --> 00:24:20,010
you would talk about Richard Dawkins but

581
00:24:22,760 --> 00:24:21,180
you wouldn't actually go and talk to

582
00:24:24,440 --> 00:24:22,770
Richard Dawkins you just talk about

583
00:24:27,380 --> 00:24:24,450
Richard Dawkins it's this mentality

584
00:24:30,670 --> 00:24:27,390
let's talk about people but let's not

585
00:24:34,010 --> 00:24:30,680
involve them in the conversation so I'm

586
00:24:35,360 --> 00:24:34,020
kind of a like taken aback and now that

587
00:24:36,710 --> 00:24:35,370
i think about it since mark was talking

588
00:24:37,900 --> 00:24:36,720
I was able to think a little bit more

589
00:24:41,120 --> 00:24:37,910
about what you meant about the team

590
00:24:43,520 --> 00:24:41,130
anybody who is talking about us not

591
00:24:46,940 --> 00:24:43,530
being a team or that it that I don't

592
00:24:49,460 --> 00:24:46,950
feel like I'm in it that I have it this

593
00:24:51,920 --> 00:24:49,470
team thing is totally clueless to what's

594
00:24:53,510 --> 00:24:51,930
actually going on I have people from all

595
00:24:56,900 --> 00:24:53,520
over the world that are going and

596
00:24:58,670 --> 00:24:56,910
lecturing I have a man named Michael

597
00:25:01,310 --> 00:24:58,680
who's going to be lecturing at a German

598
00:25:02,900 --> 00:25:01,320
conference in may and I have people

599
00:25:04,970 --> 00:25:02,910
who've spoken at skeptic camps in

600
00:25:06,800 --> 00:25:04,980
Australia and other places totally

601
00:25:08,720 --> 00:25:06,810
they're just they're taking it off on

602
00:25:10,610 --> 00:25:08,730
themselves we talked about what maybe

603
00:25:12,140 --> 00:25:10,620
they'll say they did their own power

604
00:25:14,080 --> 00:25:12,150
points you know we might look them over

605
00:25:16,720 --> 00:25:14,090
it's my team

606
00:25:18,490 --> 00:25:16,730
but it's also our team I don't know how

607
00:25:21,340 --> 00:25:18,500
I say it maybe it's like the Trinity you

608
00:25:26,710 --> 00:25:21,350
know except instead of being oh this

609
00:25:29,140 --> 00:25:26,720
isn't and it's one you know so it's kind

610
00:25:31,060 --> 00:25:29,150
of like that but so there is anybody I

611
00:25:32,549 --> 00:25:31,070
don't know what's going on yet i'm not

612
00:25:35,230 --> 00:25:32,559
sure what i'm saying here yet but

613
00:25:38,140 --> 00:25:35,240
anybody who's talking about us in that

614
00:25:40,029 --> 00:25:38,150
way is it sounds does not understand the

615
00:25:41,980 --> 00:25:40,039
dynamics of the group or the project and

616
00:25:44,890 --> 00:25:41,990
I would appreciate it if they would

617
00:25:46,630 --> 00:25:44,900
actually speak to me and get a real

618
00:25:49,990 --> 00:25:46,640
perspective of what's going on instead

619
00:25:53,139 --> 00:25:50,000
of talking about me without mentioning

620
00:25:55,060 --> 00:25:53,149
us okay well anyway so I'm totally

621
00:25:57,490 --> 00:25:55,070
clueless I get support from everyone

622
00:25:59,169 --> 00:25:57,500
everywhere I have really had almost no

623
00:26:02,230 --> 00:25:59,179
criticism except from the paranormal

624
00:26:04,450 --> 00:26:02,240
world yeah Susan amok thank you very

625
00:26:06,460 --> 00:26:04,460
much thank you for help thank you so

626
00:26:21,830 --> 00:26:06,470
much i love media now go out there and

627
00:26:28,340 --> 00:26:25,100
yes it's bunga bunga people want me to

628
00:26:30,049 --> 00:26:28,350
ingest hawk one I assume that's because

629
00:26:32,390 --> 00:26:30,059
they think it will somehow cure me of

630
00:26:34,760 --> 00:26:32,400
multiple sclerosis but I like my

631
00:26:36,289 --> 00:26:34,770
multiple sclerosis I worked hard to get

632
00:26:37,669 --> 00:26:36,299
it the hook Williams are in there long

633
00:26:39,980 --> 00:26:37,679
enough went they eat through the wall of

634
00:26:41,570 --> 00:26:39,990
the intestine and possibly go into a an

635
00:26:43,370 --> 00:26:41,580
organ I think the idea is that

636
00:26:46,190 --> 00:26:43,380
eventually at least you know what's

637
00:26:49,130 --> 00:26:46,200
killing you Maynard and Tim Ferguson in

638
00:26:52,370 --> 00:26:49,140
a new-ish podcast bunga bunga with

639
00:26:54,950 --> 00:26:52,380
special guest well with alleged special

640
00:26:58,460 --> 00:26:54,960
guest Richard Saunders you can find this

641
00:27:02,299 --> 00:26:58,470
and 80 other free shows of stuff at

642
00:27:11,120 --> 00:27:02,309
Maynard dot-com day you I said hey you

643
00:27:16,170 --> 00:27:13,920
welcome to a week in science from ra oz

644
00:27:18,810 --> 00:27:16,180
bringing you the science you need to

645
00:27:20,820 --> 00:27:18,820
know anyone who knows me knows I'm a bit

646
00:27:22,650 --> 00:27:20,830
of a sci-fi fan and the question that

647
00:27:28,590 --> 00:27:22,660
literally no one has ever asked me is

648
00:27:30,750 --> 00:27:28,600
could cyborgs exist cyborgs are a staple

649
00:27:34,140 --> 00:27:30,760
of sci-fi appearing in everything from

650
00:27:36,330 --> 00:27:34,150
Doctor Who Star Trek Star Wars just

651
00:27:38,370 --> 00:27:36,340
about any show you can think of we think

652
00:27:41,010 --> 00:27:38,380
of cyborgs is a mixture of biological

653
00:27:43,440 --> 00:27:41,020
and computational technology such as a

654
00:27:45,960 --> 00:27:43,450
human body supplemented with electronics

655
00:27:48,330 --> 00:27:45,970
that all sounds a bit fanciful but is it

656
00:27:50,790 --> 00:27:48,340
could humans one day start incorporating

657
00:27:53,160 --> 00:27:50,800
robotic or computer technology into our

658
00:27:57,420 --> 00:27:53,170
bodies believe it or not it's already

659
00:27:59,460 --> 00:27:57,430
started the University of Washington has

660
00:28:01,350 --> 00:27:59,470
already carried out experiments where a

661
00:28:03,360 --> 00:28:01,360
person's conscious thought was carried

662
00:28:04,920 --> 00:28:03,370
over the internet and induced movements

663
00:28:07,470 --> 00:28:04,930
in a second person sitting elsewhere

664
00:28:09,120 --> 00:28:07,480
there is also research looking into the

665
00:28:11,490 --> 00:28:09,130
interaction between the human nervous

666
00:28:14,100 --> 00:28:11,500
system and machines potentially allowing

667
00:28:15,960 --> 00:28:14,110
human thought to control machinery but

668
00:28:18,090 --> 00:28:15,970
where do we want to the drawback of

669
00:28:20,460 --> 00:28:18,100
flesh and blood as bodies is that they

670
00:28:21,990 --> 00:28:20,470
will eventually fail while a cyborg body

671
00:28:24,450 --> 00:28:22,000
and mind could effectively give us

672
00:28:26,400 --> 00:28:24,460
immortality but more than that it may

673
00:28:27,870 --> 00:28:26,410
give hope to those who do have serious

674
00:28:30,420 --> 00:28:27,880
health problems which restricts their

675
00:28:33,600 --> 00:28:30,430
mobility communication or other day to

676
00:28:36,120 --> 00:28:33,610
day tasks and now for fast facts about

677
00:28:38,590 --> 00:28:36,130
cybernetics

678
00:28:40,450 --> 00:28:38,600
wearable electronics such as Google

679
00:28:42,970 --> 00:28:40,460
glass could be seen as the first step

680
00:28:45,700 --> 00:28:42,980
towards cybernetics giving humans high

681
00:28:47,920 --> 00:28:45,710
functionality through technology asus

682
00:28:50,200 --> 00:28:47,930
Neil Harvison has implanted technology

683
00:28:52,780 --> 00:28:50,210
into his head to correct color blindness

684
00:28:55,840 --> 00:28:52,790
and he now even considers himself to be

685
00:28:58,090 --> 00:28:55,850
a cyborg in 2009 European doctors

686
00:29:00,030 --> 00:28:58,100
successfully integrated a robotic hand

687
00:29:02,620 --> 00:29:00,040
into the nervous system of an amputee

688
00:29:05,260 --> 00:29:02,630
allowing him to control the hand as if

689
00:29:07,150 --> 00:29:05,270
it were his own and a small mobile robot

690
00:29:10,150 --> 00:29:07,160
has also been built and successfully

691
00:29:12,100 --> 00:29:10,160
controlled using rat neurons that's it

692
00:29:14,170 --> 00:29:12,110
for this week in science if you want to

693
00:29:15,760 --> 00:29:14,180
find out more about cybernetics one day

694
00:29:18,280 --> 00:29:15,770
you won't even need the Internet to look

695
00:29:22,990 --> 00:29:18,290
it up but until then goes the are ELLs

696
00:29:25,420 --> 00:29:23,000
website are I aus org dot a you follow

697
00:29:27,760 --> 00:29:25,430
us on twitter at our oz and like us on

698
00:29:38,130 --> 00:29:27,770
facebook i'm ben lewis and we'll catch

699
00:29:48,190 --> 00:29:46,000
rust 3 30 minute video fear of the

700
00:29:49,990 --> 00:29:48,200
Islamic law be so skeptical moons of you

701
00:29:51,730 --> 00:29:50,000
must know not just a jutro prohodit cars

702
00:29:53,560 --> 00:29:51,740
the divinity live mas clear it up Joe

703
00:29:55,270 --> 00:29:53,570
progression Pellucidar footpath Petrova

704
00:29:57,250 --> 00:29:55,280
hooded garden in jail but customs

705
00:29:59,860 --> 00:29:57,260
White's escaped as I Tekkit Roman were

706
00:30:04,600 --> 00:29:59,870
still not initiated st at the web /

707
00:30:06,010 --> 00:30:04,610
skeptics society Raj guru everybody my

708
00:30:08,320 --> 00:30:06,020
name is Carol and i'm the founder of

709
00:30:10,060 --> 00:30:08,330
skeptics society russia come visit us in

710
00:30:12,070 --> 00:30:10,070
moscow and our bi-weekly meetings and

711
00:30:13,960 --> 00:30:12,080
also listen to our weekly podcast which

712
00:30:16,030 --> 00:30:13,970
is called skeptic and the site where you

713
00:30:37,430 --> 00:30:16,040
can find all that the skeptics society

714
00:30:43,169 --> 00:30:41,430
I'm at the University of Sydney and

715
00:30:45,539 --> 00:30:43,179
we've just been through a talk by dr.

716
00:30:47,789 --> 00:30:45,549
Karl game of knowns I'm with Joe

717
00:30:49,740 --> 00:30:47,799
alabaster hello Joey hello Richard how

718
00:30:51,990 --> 00:30:49,750
are you I'm pretty well I really enjoyed

719
00:30:55,259 --> 00:30:52,000
dr. Kyle's talk tonight the ginger I say

720
00:30:58,860 --> 00:30:55,269
yes thank you yes yes I did I'm he

721
00:30:59,999 --> 00:30:58,870
honestly I'm not I'm not coaching it to

722
00:31:02,310 --> 00:31:00,009
say that no it was really it was a

723
00:31:04,230 --> 00:31:02,320
packed house here tonight morning dr.

724
00:31:06,899 --> 00:31:04,240
Cole gave his talk game in my bones and

725
00:31:08,310 --> 00:31:06,909
typical dr. Carl talk you never know

726
00:31:09,779 --> 00:31:08,320
where it was like a train of

727
00:31:11,999 --> 00:31:09,789
consciousness wasn't in a stream of

728
00:31:14,369 --> 00:31:12,009
consciousness wasn't data it jumped all

729
00:31:18,570 --> 00:31:14,379
over the place but was somehow didn't

730
00:31:21,960 --> 00:31:18,580
feel unconscious it was tied together

731
00:31:24,509 --> 00:31:21,970
he'd talk about like some amoeba which

732
00:31:26,070 --> 00:31:24,519
would lead to junk food which would lead

733
00:31:28,320 --> 00:31:26,080
to heart disease which would lead to

734
00:31:30,570 --> 00:31:28,330
this and it was a roller coaster and

735
00:31:36,779 --> 00:31:30,580
lots of photos of Cardassians for some

736
00:31:39,570 --> 00:31:36,789
unknown reason yes noticed at it all

737
00:31:41,490 --> 00:31:39,580
made sense atienden dubbed along for the

738
00:31:43,529 --> 00:31:41,500
evening to is peter ballots from

739
00:31:45,060 --> 00:31:43,539
australian Skillex alone hello Andy

740
00:31:46,409 --> 00:31:45,070
invoice from Australians get hello

741
00:31:50,279 --> 00:31:46,419
Richard glad you got to mention during

742
00:31:52,499 --> 00:31:50,289
the top yes Kyle gave me a shout out to

743
00:31:54,360 --> 00:31:52,509
my own amusement embarrassment that the

744
00:31:57,119 --> 00:31:54,370
back of the audience so what's happening

745
00:31:58,499 --> 00:31:57,129
in the world of skepticism me and any

746
00:32:00,450 --> 00:31:58,509
any interesting things on the horizon

747
00:32:01,980 --> 00:32:00,460
anything that you've been looking at is

748
00:32:04,590 --> 00:32:01,990
I've been reading a book on string

749
00:32:07,019 --> 00:32:04,600
theory string theory what do you think

750
00:32:09,210 --> 00:32:07,029
about string theory that's more than

751
00:32:12,180 --> 00:32:09,220
when I started and first did you like me

752
00:32:15,899 --> 00:32:12,190
to explain to you yeah it's triggered by

753
00:32:19,080 --> 00:32:15,909
the idea that the series 1 + 2 + 3 + 4 +

754
00:32:20,220 --> 00:32:19,090
5 etc sums up 2-1 12 which has been

755
00:32:22,350 --> 00:32:20,230
doing the rounds on the internet I've

756
00:32:25,649 --> 00:32:22,360
seen that years don't start this I can I

757
00:32:28,140 --> 00:32:25,659
didn't leader Iran's to give all have

758
00:32:30,600 --> 00:32:28,150
noticed on cue skeptics

759
00:32:32,280 --> 00:32:30,610
well I I saw that in passing but I

760
00:32:34,530 --> 00:32:32,290
really didn't get into it you know i

761
00:32:37,590 --> 00:32:34,540
i've been going into it in great detail

762
00:32:39,570 --> 00:32:37,600
for the last week yeah i saw i saw

763
00:32:41,070 --> 00:32:39,580
people arguing about it and it's seen

764
00:32:43,110 --> 00:32:41,080
but they separate into two camps one of

765
00:32:46,380 --> 00:32:43,120
them said it's obvious and the other

766
00:32:48,120 --> 00:32:46,390
half said it's ridiculous and in the

767
00:32:50,130 --> 00:32:48,130
middle there was nobody that's right

768
00:32:52,770 --> 00:32:50,140
maybe it's obvious that it's ridiculous

769
00:32:54,690 --> 00:32:52,780
no I can't say that I really didn't know

770
00:32:56,790 --> 00:32:54,700
enough about it but Peter it's been an

771
00:32:58,380 --> 00:32:56,800
interesting time recently and you know

772
00:32:59,730 --> 00:32:58,390
ever since you skipped exam started

773
00:33:04,200 --> 00:32:59,740
we've been harping on about the anti

774
00:33:05,640 --> 00:33:04,210
boxes and and it's like they're compared

775
00:33:08,190 --> 00:33:05,650
to where they were years ago there

776
00:33:10,590 --> 00:33:08,200
they're a shadow there for myself but

777
00:33:12,680 --> 00:33:10,600
they're still hanging in there I think I

778
00:33:15,270 --> 00:33:12,690
think we've got them essentially boonton

779
00:33:17,040 --> 00:33:15,280
that will never go away no I'll never go

780
00:33:18,120 --> 00:33:17,050
a bit if they had any vaccinations

781
00:33:21,870 --> 00:33:18,130
people from the time Jenna first

782
00:33:23,400 --> 00:33:21,880
announced the cow pox vaccine so it will

783
00:33:25,470 --> 00:33:23,410
never go away in the same way that will

784
00:33:27,810 --> 00:33:25,480
never wipe out people that want to use

785
00:33:29,250 --> 00:33:27,820
know all sorts of alternative medicines

786
00:33:31,020 --> 00:33:29,260
and things like that but I think what

787
00:33:34,560 --> 00:33:31,030
we've done and we've mentioned through

788
00:33:36,510 --> 00:33:34,570
the table last five years is we've taken

789
00:33:38,670 --> 00:33:36,520
away the authority they used to have

790
00:33:42,390 --> 00:33:38,680
yeah that is they no longer get invited

791
00:33:45,120 --> 00:33:42,400
on as experts yeah yeah and TV shows and

792
00:33:47,430 --> 00:33:45,130
the media arts refueling yeah whereas

793
00:33:48,960 --> 00:33:47,440
five years ago if there was a story

794
00:33:51,570 --> 00:33:48,970
about vaccinations it would be a needy

795
00:33:53,730 --> 00:33:51,580
vaccination yeah yeah I think we've do

796
00:33:55,830 --> 00:33:53,740
it a long way to go but I think we've at

797
00:33:57,180 --> 00:33:55,840
least got rid of that yeah I'm ever got

798
00:33:58,950 --> 00:33:57,190
so many problems I have to deal with

799
00:34:00,900 --> 00:33:58,960
internally now with the government with

800
00:34:03,030 --> 00:34:00,910
the law and it's it's good to see it all

801
00:34:06,270 --> 00:34:03,040
the thing is we they're like mushrooms

802
00:34:07,770 --> 00:34:06,280
after the Rhine note it's all

803
00:34:11,550 --> 00:34:07,780
underground just don't know it there

804
00:34:13,340 --> 00:34:11,560
until that they just pop up if you're

805
00:34:15,480 --> 00:34:13,350
only vaccination network disappears

806
00:34:16,889 --> 00:34:15,490
there are at least two organizations

807
00:34:18,419 --> 00:34:16,899
which will drop up in this place yes I

808
00:34:19,980 --> 00:34:18,429
expect you're right i expect the right

809
00:34:23,100 --> 00:34:19,990
they won't have the credibility that the

810
00:34:25,530 --> 00:34:23,110
once had this is the idea of imbalance

811
00:34:26,909 --> 00:34:25,540
that you must have two sides to an

812
00:34:28,379 --> 00:34:26,919
argument even if one is wrong hopefully

813
00:34:30,180 --> 00:34:28,389
you've overthrowing that

814
00:34:32,039 --> 00:34:30,190
I've actually been quoted over the place

815
00:34:33,629 --> 00:34:32,049
my statement saying that the photograph

816
00:34:35,250 --> 00:34:33,639
has two sides but one of them is blank

817
00:34:36,720 --> 00:34:35,260
and doesn't that's a great shame yeah

818
00:34:39,509 --> 00:34:36,730
there's two such a row know as a

819
00:34:40,980 --> 00:34:39,519
photograph as a blank side as we speak

820
00:34:43,139 --> 00:34:40,990
here we're just looking over here look

821
00:34:45,569 --> 00:34:43,149
at the car mugging dr. Karl muggy away

822
00:34:47,549 --> 00:34:45,579
with these fans and it lots of selfies

823
00:34:48,930 --> 00:34:47,559
lots of photographs moving like he's

824
00:34:50,639 --> 00:34:48,940
slapping it we've gotta line up for a

825
00:34:52,409 --> 00:34:50,649
selfie with him shortly I think I think

826
00:34:53,849 --> 00:34:52,419
we do i think when i'm looking forward

827
00:34:55,559 --> 00:34:53,859
of course to seeing dr. carl at the

828
00:34:58,230 --> 00:34:55,569
amazing meeting later on in the year is

829
00:34:59,460 --> 00:34:58,240
the audience dissipates a little bit

830
00:35:00,960 --> 00:34:59,470
we're still in the queue actually in the

831
00:35:03,059 --> 00:35:00,970
queue to meet the man himself we're in

832
00:35:08,009 --> 00:35:03,069
the queue years subscribe thanks

833
00:35:11,099 --> 00:35:08,019
everybody my side I mr. date an ugly

834
00:35:13,049 --> 00:35:11,109
what's his own i'm here at skeptics in

835
00:35:15,059 --> 00:35:13,059
the pub it's lauren cochran the

836
00:35:17,670 --> 00:35:15,069
president of canberra skeptics come up

837
00:35:19,799 --> 00:35:17,680
the city hello hello hey oh well um it's

838
00:35:21,690 --> 00:35:19,809
great to see you yes likewise and

839
00:35:24,180 --> 00:35:21,700
listeners will know your voice of course

840
00:35:26,819 --> 00:35:24,190
because you do the AE on read yes i do

841
00:35:28,950 --> 00:35:26,829
and more to come i hope all you need to

842
00:35:31,410 --> 00:35:28,960
do is ask me back ah she's so sweet

843
00:35:32,759 --> 00:35:31,420
redbay hello how are you were here at

844
00:35:34,049 --> 00:35:32,769
skeptics in about and we're having a

845
00:35:35,910 --> 00:35:34,059
great time at the moment before the

846
00:35:40,819 --> 00:35:35,920
crowds come in Josh hello over there

847
00:35:44,789 --> 00:35:40,829
where I my extensive archive of

848
00:35:46,529 --> 00:35:44,799
skeptical bits and pieces and videos and

849
00:35:48,089 --> 00:35:46,539
we just found one with you on a better

850
00:35:50,519 --> 00:35:48,099
let's have a listen in those daily

851
00:35:56,320 --> 00:35:50,529
horoscopes and why are they all so

852
00:36:00,070 --> 00:35:57,850
sometimes gives you a little bit of

853
00:36:02,140 --> 00:36:00,080
security to think that in the future

854
00:36:05,020 --> 00:36:02,150
might have something to look forward to

855
00:36:06,190 --> 00:36:05,030
that's not dr. Bob I quite often have

856
00:36:08,020 --> 00:36:06,200
something to look forward to in the

857
00:36:09,310 --> 00:36:08,030
future because the Tory HUD looks up

858
00:36:11,410 --> 00:36:09,320
look forward to something in the past it

859
00:36:14,350 --> 00:36:11,420
is but this is this is our four or five

860
00:36:17,950 --> 00:36:14,360
you first so much but it's giving you

861
00:36:19,060 --> 00:36:17,960
some kind of God and there's no slightly

862
00:36:20,650 --> 00:36:19,070
evidence when people actually govern

863
00:36:26,230 --> 00:36:20,660
intestine it's not that it really does

864
00:36:29,620 --> 00:36:26,240
work skeptic and skeptic do man or a

865
00:36:30,880 --> 00:36:29,630
fish now this is um that was today

866
00:36:33,130 --> 00:36:30,890
tonight some years ago you were on

867
00:36:34,390 --> 00:36:33,140
talking about astrology but ah man I've

868
00:36:36,330 --> 00:36:34,400
got so many things in here I've been

869
00:36:39,910 --> 00:36:36,340
collecting over these look couchman from

870
00:36:48,160 --> 00:36:39,920
1992 you remember the catchment show you

871
00:36:50,920 --> 00:36:48,170
see school you've all got a very clear

872
00:36:53,110 --> 00:36:50,930
idea of what sort of person I am some of

873
00:36:56,740 --> 00:36:53,120
you actually told me but according to

874
00:37:00,790 --> 00:36:56,750
the astrologers I am ambitious and

875
00:37:04,330 --> 00:37:00,800
server they're industrious and very well

876
00:37:06,850 --> 00:37:04,340
organized so this is all these years ago

877
00:37:08,770 --> 00:37:06,860
but if we skip through it we find some

878
00:37:17,340 --> 00:37:08,780
very well-known skeptics that you know

879
00:37:19,450 --> 00:37:17,350
from the Australian point of view what

880
00:37:21,550 --> 00:37:19,460
professor professor and professor I

881
00:37:23,140 --> 00:37:21,560
think who did who did a tip some serious

882
00:37:24,820 --> 00:37:23,150
study said the trouble would be perfect

883
00:37:26,800 --> 00:37:24,830
with this is for any serious pre-surgery

884
00:37:28,540 --> 00:37:26,810
she could shouted down by both sides you

885
00:37:30,310 --> 00:37:28,550
get shouted down for the astrologers for

886
00:37:32,050 --> 00:37:30,320
daring to doubted you get shouted down

887
00:37:33,220 --> 00:37:32,060
by the others but there is to take a

888
00:37:35,530 --> 00:37:33,230
Denarius right

889
00:37:37,990 --> 00:37:35,540
look just just a bit quiet anyway I'm

890
00:37:41,050 --> 00:37:38,000
just sort of bogs down into argument is

891
00:37:44,800 --> 00:37:41,060
it funny there's a funny bit she's dead

892
00:37:48,370 --> 00:37:44,810
now theta star woman remember famous

893
00:37:50,349 --> 00:37:48,380
fear because there's there's one very

894
00:37:52,390 --> 00:37:50,359
basic question that I'd really like to

895
00:37:54,670 --> 00:37:52,400
hear your disgust and that is why should

896
00:37:57,220 --> 00:37:54,680
the position of the planets have any

897
00:37:59,460 --> 00:37:57,230
influence on how we react to be on our

898
00:38:01,870 --> 00:37:59,470
personalities on our characters even the

899
00:38:03,820 --> 00:38:01,880
choice of occupation that we might make

900
00:38:06,099 --> 00:38:03,830
what might happen in our lives why

901
00:38:10,660 --> 00:38:06,109
should that be can anyone explain that

902
00:38:12,820 --> 00:38:10,670
for me in 10 seconds it up the back the

903
00:38:14,410 --> 00:38:12,830
answer to that's very simple Peter the

904
00:38:16,060 --> 00:38:14,420
forces that govern the universe are

905
00:38:19,030 --> 00:38:16,070
quite well known and they have been for

906
00:38:20,230 --> 00:38:19,040
about half a century and that the forces

907
00:38:22,390 --> 00:38:20,240
do not account for any of those

908
00:38:24,490 --> 00:38:22,400
interactions the planets do not affect

909
00:38:26,440 --> 00:38:24,500
our personalities and the events that

910
00:38:30,820 --> 00:38:26,450
happened to us in that way that's enough

911
00:38:33,609 --> 00:38:30,830
isn't it well ray can you can you

912
00:38:34,840 --> 00:38:33,619
explain for it simply how the position

913
00:38:36,849 --> 00:38:34,850
of the planets at the time of our bird

914
00:38:39,010 --> 00:38:36,859
might in any way affect what sort of

915
00:38:41,200 --> 00:38:39,020
people we are well Peter I think that

916
00:38:44,770 --> 00:38:41,210
first of all the purpose of astrology is

917
00:38:47,109 --> 00:38:44,780
not to foretell the future no only what

918
00:38:48,880 --> 00:38:47,119
do you claim to do no it is not what we

919
00:38:50,920 --> 00:38:48,890
plan to do it what you people keep

920
00:38:53,380 --> 00:38:50,930
claiming we know we don't just listen to

921
00:38:54,790 --> 00:38:53,390
an astrologer community city okay just

922
00:38:56,770 --> 00:38:54,800
explain first why the position of the

923
00:38:59,050 --> 00:38:56,780
planets should in any way influence our

924
00:39:01,330 --> 00:38:59,060
personalities the position of the

925
00:39:04,510 --> 00:39:01,340
planets when they're talking about the

926
00:39:06,990 --> 00:39:04,520
the solar system the most important

927
00:39:11,200 --> 00:39:07,000
thing in the solar system is the Sun you

928
00:39:15,760 --> 00:39:11,210
switch off that son you've got a heap of

929
00:39:19,930 --> 00:39:15,770
rocks having said that there are four

930
00:39:22,309 --> 00:39:19,940
major seasons summer autumn winter

931
00:39:29,239 --> 00:39:22,319
spring

932
00:39:33,680 --> 00:39:29,249
will not grow in the summer I won't boil

933
00:39:34,969 --> 00:39:33,690
it goes there are well well ought to

934
00:39:36,949 --> 00:39:34,979
know I think I think I think it is

935
00:39:38,809 --> 00:39:36,959
accepted by certainly people who were

936
00:39:41,089 --> 00:39:38,819
who grow things all your plans are

937
00:39:44,299 --> 00:39:41,099
influenced by the audio improved and the

938
00:39:46,729 --> 00:39:44,309
stakes a little further we are part of

939
00:39:52,479 --> 00:39:46,739
all we have met Arthur Bowman will tell

940
00:39:56,029 --> 00:39:52,489
you that every time in the universe is

941
00:39:58,309 --> 00:39:56,039
putting its stamp impeccably and forever

942
00:40:00,739 --> 00:39:58,319
on every part of that universe that

943
00:40:04,900 --> 00:40:00,749
started at that moment including people

944
00:40:07,789 --> 00:40:04,910
a winter child is like a winter flower a

945
00:40:10,640 --> 00:40:07,799
summit child is like a summer flower we

946
00:40:12,559 --> 00:40:10,650
are different I take a step I am

947
00:40:14,120 --> 00:40:12,569
different to the person who has one step

948
00:40:16,609 --> 00:40:14,130
behind me and different again to the

949
00:40:19,729 --> 00:40:16,619
person on either side of me the thing

950
00:40:23,109 --> 00:40:19,739
that makes astrology work best is free

951
00:40:25,630 --> 00:40:23,119
will free will because you can have

952
00:40:28,519 --> 00:40:25,640
50,000 people born at the same instant

953
00:40:31,400 --> 00:40:28,529
under the same planetary influences and

954
00:40:35,059 --> 00:40:31,410
they exercising their god-given free

955
00:40:37,939 --> 00:40:35,069
will will make 50,000 individual

956
00:40:41,239 --> 00:40:37,949
different decisions and each one of them

957
00:40:42,559 --> 00:40:41,249
can be right for you yes but hold on a

958
00:40:44,329 --> 00:40:42,569
minute does that mean that all those

959
00:40:48,469 --> 00:40:44,339
people who were born at the same minute

960
00:40:50,299 --> 00:40:48,479
that I was also all those things that I

961
00:40:53,120 --> 00:40:50,309
am you know on the bad days malicious

962
00:40:55,130 --> 00:40:53,130
pessimistic and selfish but they've done

963
00:40:57,289 --> 00:40:55,140
the play well it's your call twin like a

964
00:40:58,729 --> 00:40:57,299
person born on the same hospital around

965
00:41:01,400 --> 00:40:58,739
about the same time as you would have a

966
00:41:03,769 --> 00:41:01,410
similar experience or life pattern but

967
00:41:05,150 --> 00:41:03,779
does that mean by that definition the

968
00:41:08,420 --> 00:41:05,160
Grays just given us we should be almost

969
00:41:10,069 --> 00:41:08,430
identical personalities because we're

970
00:41:12,920 --> 00:41:10,079
taking into account the genetic

971
00:41:15,559 --> 00:41:12,930
processes but arrived from the two

972
00:41:17,689 --> 00:41:15,569
family lines that a conception then meet

973
00:41:19,130 --> 00:41:17,699
and that individual is obviously going

974
00:41:21,259 --> 00:41:19,140
to display a lot of those genetic

975
00:41:23,029 --> 00:41:21,269
processes and is the environmental

976
00:41:24,739 --> 00:41:23,039
influences acting on those genetic

977
00:41:27,559 --> 00:41:24,749
processes which is going to make that

978
00:41:29,180 --> 00:41:27,569
person what they are what this thing is

979
00:41:30,020 --> 00:41:29,190
cop out from what they're claiming I

980
00:41:32,300 --> 00:41:30,030
mean

981
00:41:34,670 --> 00:41:32,310
you all the only tell thanks to the egg

982
00:41:37,280 --> 00:41:34,680
on top the fifties ever sighs mark we

983
00:41:40,730 --> 00:41:37,290
alone know everything where they started

984
00:41:42,410 --> 00:41:40,740
out best part of that will wait well yes

985
00:41:44,120 --> 00:41:42,420
yes well isn't that denying the whole

986
00:41:46,820 --> 00:41:44,130
basis of your load of rubbish you know

987
00:41:48,830 --> 00:41:46,830
about okay whatever it's going on here

988
00:41:52,010 --> 00:41:48,840
Barry megas denying all these influences

989
00:41:55,010 --> 00:41:52,020
thank you i will use it this way i can

990
00:41:59,390 --> 00:41:55,020
use this chair like that all right look

991
00:42:02,450 --> 00:41:59,400
I can fall over bang baby right tree

992
00:42:03,770 --> 00:42:02,460
will fall in fiber honor so what was

993
00:42:05,780 --> 00:42:03,780
your point Barry what I'm going to say

994
00:42:07,820 --> 00:42:05,790
look the point is they make a statement

995
00:42:09,710 --> 00:42:07,830
about this influence they have and then

996
00:42:10,940 --> 00:42:09,720
the the for the rest of the five minutes

997
00:42:12,680 --> 00:42:10,950
I've been talking I've been giving you

998
00:42:14,450 --> 00:42:12,690
the apps from it so that when it doesn't

999
00:42:15,980 --> 00:42:14,460
work for you well it might be a genetic

1000
00:42:17,000 --> 00:42:15,990
influence or it might be a free will or

1001
00:42:19,340 --> 00:42:17,010
it might be anything else I mean yes

1002
00:42:21,650 --> 00:42:19,350
free well I'm in great agreeing with you

1003
00:42:23,720 --> 00:42:21,660
about three well what why do you have to

1004
00:42:26,990 --> 00:42:23,730
then overlay your free will with this

1005
00:42:28,310 --> 00:42:27,000
absolute crime it's sold on hold on a

1006
00:42:30,770 --> 00:42:28,320
thing I break this off you know I gotta

1007
00:42:32,960 --> 00:42:30,780
break this up here hold on I know that's

1008
00:42:34,400 --> 00:42:32,970
sort of the fun and Sun in games we get

1009
00:42:36,260 --> 00:42:34,410
up to waiting for people to come

1010
00:42:53,880 --> 00:42:36,270
skeptics in the pub reviewing skeptical

1011
00:42:57,999 --> 00:42:56,380
hey this is Jay novella from the

1012
00:42:59,919 --> 00:42:58,009
skeptics guide to the universe podcast

1013
00:43:01,779 --> 00:42:59,929
did you know that there are thousands of

1014
00:43:03,489 --> 00:43:01,789
skeptical reports interviews and

1015
00:43:06,219 --> 00:43:03,499
investigations going back to nineteen

1016
00:43:10,089 --> 00:43:06,229
eighty one free to download just visit w

1017
00:43:11,799 --> 00:43:10,099
WC eptic coa you click the publications

1018
00:43:13,509 --> 00:43:11,809
link and enjoy almost every back issue

1019
00:43:15,309 --> 00:43:13,519
of the skeptic the journal from

1020
00:43:16,870 --> 00:43:15,319
australian skeptics you can also

1021
00:43:19,149 --> 00:43:16,880
subscribe online and get the latest

1022
00:43:21,189 --> 00:43:19,159
digital or hard copy of this the world's

1023
00:43:24,849 --> 00:43:21,199
second oldest skeptical magazine that's

1024
00:43:40,010 --> 00:43:24,859
ww skeptics com au or just google

1025
00:43:50,470 --> 00:43:44,270
what we want some more evidence please

1026
00:43:56,510 --> 00:43:54,170
hello this is Joe alabaster from the

1027
00:44:00,410 --> 00:43:56,520
healthcare Complaints Commission 30th of

1028
00:44:02,600 --> 00:44:00,420
april 2014 the New South Wales

1029
00:44:04,430 --> 00:44:02,610
healthcare Complaints Commission has

1030
00:44:06,650 --> 00:44:04,440
completed an investigation into the

1031
00:44:09,950 --> 00:44:06,660
Australian vaccination skeptics Network

1032
00:44:12,260 --> 00:44:09,960
Inc a vm formerly known as Australian

1033
00:44:14,630 --> 00:44:12,270
vaccination network inc and under

1034
00:44:16,880 --> 00:44:14,640
section 94 a one of the healthcare

1035
00:44:19,060 --> 00:44:16,890
complaints Act has decided to make the

1036
00:44:22,610 --> 00:44:19,070
following public statement and warning

1037
00:44:24,890 --> 00:44:22,620
avn was established in 1994 in New South

1038
00:44:26,690 --> 00:44:24,900
Wales by a group of people concerned

1039
00:44:28,760 --> 00:44:26,700
about the lack of scientifically based

1040
00:44:31,970 --> 00:44:28,770
information cautioning against

1041
00:44:33,680 --> 00:44:31,980
vaccination avn States on its website

1042
00:44:36,740 --> 00:44:33,690
that the government and the medical

1043
00:44:38,570 --> 00:44:36,750
community in general quote exaggerate

1044
00:44:40,310 --> 00:44:38,580
the safety and benefit profiles of

1045
00:44:43,880 --> 00:44:40,320
vaccinations whilst downplaying their

1046
00:44:46,520 --> 00:44:43,890
risks and quote avn states that was

1047
00:44:48,380 --> 00:44:46,530
formed with the purpose of providing

1048
00:44:50,560 --> 00:44:48,390
medically referenced information on

1049
00:44:53,090 --> 00:44:50,570
vaccine safety and effectiveness

1050
00:44:54,860 --> 00:44:53,100
lobbying to ensure that vaccinations are

1051
00:44:57,320 --> 00:44:54,870
never made compulsory for Australian

1052
00:44:59,810 --> 00:44:57,330
children supporting those who have

1053
00:45:02,450 --> 00:44:59,820
chosen not to vaccinate or to vaccinate

1054
00:45:05,210 --> 00:45:02,460
selectively avn disseminates information

1055
00:45:10,640 --> 00:45:05,220
to the public via a variety of mediums

1056
00:45:13,010 --> 00:45:10,650
these include its website wwan orga you

1057
00:45:16,130 --> 00:45:13,020
the magazine entitled living wisdom

1058
00:45:18,770 --> 00:45:16,140
which ceased publication in January 2013

1059
00:45:21,950 --> 00:45:18,780
its Facebook page Twitter account and

1060
00:45:24,080 --> 00:45:21,960
YouTube merrill dory the former

1061
00:45:27,050 --> 00:45:24,090
president has also held a number of

1062
00:45:29,090 --> 00:45:27,060
radio interviews the commission

1063
00:45:31,130 --> 00:45:29,100
investigated whether information

1064
00:45:34,130 --> 00:45:31,140
published and disseminated by the avn

1065
00:45:36,170 --> 00:45:34,140
may be misleading or inaccurate the

1066
00:45:38,600 --> 00:45:36,180
investigation focused on information

1067
00:45:40,520 --> 00:45:38,610
provided on avians website and some

1068
00:45:43,550 --> 00:45:40,530
information disseminated on avians

1069
00:45:45,740 --> 00:45:43,560
facebook page the investigation found

1070
00:45:47,900 --> 00:45:45,750
that avian provides information on

1071
00:45:49,670 --> 00:45:47,910
vaccinations that is misleading to the

1072
00:45:52,370 --> 00:45:49,680
average reader because it is either

1073
00:45:55,270 --> 00:45:52,380
incorrect in accurately represented or

1074
00:45:58,130 --> 00:45:55,280
because it has been taken out of context

1075
00:46:00,290 --> 00:45:58,140
specifically avian makes specific

1076
00:46:01,640 --> 00:46:00,300
assertions about the efficacy of the

1077
00:46:03,589 --> 00:46:01,650
gardasil vaccine you

1078
00:46:07,779 --> 00:46:03,599
to prevent cervical cancer caused by the

1079
00:46:10,640 --> 00:46:07,789
human papillomavirus HPV it states that

1080
00:46:13,130 --> 00:46:10,650
the connection between HPV and cervical

1081
00:46:16,250 --> 00:46:13,140
cancer is tenuous at best and

1082
00:46:17,870 --> 00:46:16,260
incomprehensive at worst the vaccine

1083
00:46:20,839 --> 00:46:17,880
contains only four of the hundred

1084
00:46:24,589 --> 00:46:20,849
strains of HPV and therefore its use is

1085
00:46:26,720 --> 00:46:24,599
a quote shot in the dark end quote it is

1086
00:46:30,620 --> 00:46:26,730
an experimental vaccine with no proven

1087
00:46:33,620 --> 00:46:30,630
record of safety or effectiveness avian

1088
00:46:36,109 --> 00:46:33,630
does not qualify that gardasil contains

1089
00:46:38,930 --> 00:46:36,119
the four strains of HPV that have the

1090
00:46:41,210 --> 00:46:38,940
greatest potential to cause cancer the

1091
00:46:43,630 --> 00:46:41,220
link between HPV and cervical cancer has

1092
00:46:46,039 --> 00:46:43,640
been established beyond reasonable doubt

1093
00:46:47,630 --> 00:46:46,049
significant research went into assessing

1094
00:46:49,370 --> 00:46:47,640
the probable safety and efficacy of

1095
00:46:52,609 --> 00:46:49,380
gardasil before it was ever used in

1096
00:46:55,279 --> 00:46:52,619
humans since its use extensive worldwide

1097
00:46:58,579 --> 00:46:55,289
data on its safety and efficacy has been

1098
00:47:01,190 --> 00:46:58,589
collected supporting its safety avian

1099
00:47:03,410 --> 00:47:01,200
asserts that the pertussis vaccine used

1100
00:47:05,240 --> 00:47:03,420
to prevent whooping cough cannot protect

1101
00:47:07,549 --> 00:47:05,250
against a new strain of pertussis and

1102
00:47:09,880 --> 00:47:07,559
that eighty four percent of cases in the

1103
00:47:12,710 --> 00:47:09,890
community are caused by this new strain

1104
00:47:14,390 --> 00:47:12,720
further avian claims that the

1105
00:47:16,910 --> 00:47:14,400
administration of the new acellular

1106
00:47:19,099 --> 00:47:16,920
vaccine sometimes requires surgery at

1107
00:47:20,599 --> 00:47:19,109
the injection site and attributes this

1108
00:47:22,700 --> 00:47:20,609
is the reason for the change in the

1109
00:47:26,329 --> 00:47:22,710
vaccination schedule with a removal of

1110
00:47:28,250 --> 00:47:26,339
the 18 month booster it is incorrect to

1111
00:47:30,079 --> 00:47:28,260
state that the vaccine cannot offer any

1112
00:47:32,660 --> 00:47:30,089
protection against the new strain and

1113
00:47:34,460 --> 00:47:32,670
there is no evidence of severe local

1114
00:47:36,740 --> 00:47:34,470
reactions to the administration of the

1115
00:47:39,130 --> 00:47:36,750
acellular vaccine that requires surgical

1116
00:47:41,539 --> 00:47:39,140
intervention at the injection site

1117
00:47:43,190 --> 00:47:41,549
further the removal of the 18 month

1118
00:47:45,109 --> 00:47:43,200
booster dose from the vaccination

1119
00:47:47,059 --> 00:47:45,119
schedule was based on a study that

1120
00:47:49,309 --> 00:47:47,069
evidenced protection from pertussis was

1121
00:47:51,319 --> 00:47:49,319
maintained until six years of age when

1122
00:47:53,799 --> 00:47:51,329
the primary paroxetine course is given

1123
00:47:56,809 --> 00:47:53,809
at two four and six years of age in

1124
00:48:00,589 --> 00:47:56,819
relation to diphtheria tetanus pertussis

1125
00:48:03,740 --> 00:48:00,599
dtp vaccines avian asserts that quote

1126
00:48:06,680 --> 00:48:03,750
all whole-cell dtp vaccines contain

1127
00:48:08,990 --> 00:48:06,690
mercury in the form of thiomersal end

1128
00:48:11,390 --> 00:48:09,000
quote and that it is one of the most

1129
00:48:14,210 --> 00:48:11,400
toxic substances known to man and has

1130
00:48:15,569 --> 00:48:14,220
been linked with autism in the past the

1131
00:48:17,339 --> 00:48:15,579
wholesale dtp vac

1132
00:48:20,489 --> 00:48:17,349
then used in Australia did contain

1133
00:48:22,920 --> 00:48:20,499
thiomersal however even if the maximum

1134
00:48:24,839 --> 00:48:22,930
possible doses were given it is unlikely

1135
00:48:26,640 --> 00:48:24,849
that the World Health Organization's

1136
00:48:28,259 --> 00:48:26,650
recommended limit of exposure per

1137
00:48:31,349 --> 00:48:28,269
kilogram of body weight would have been

1138
00:48:33,690 --> 00:48:31,359
exceeded in 2012 the World Health

1139
00:48:36,029 --> 00:48:33,700
Organization's global advisory committee

1140
00:48:37,650 --> 00:48:36,039
on vaccine safety reviewed available

1141
00:48:39,690 --> 00:48:37,660
information on the safety of thiomersal

1142
00:48:41,400 --> 00:48:39,700
and concluded that the levels of

1143
00:48:43,589 --> 00:48:41,410
thiomersal attained in the body from

1144
00:48:46,079 --> 00:48:43,599
cumulative doses of vaccines do not

1145
00:48:47,910 --> 00:48:46,089
reach toxic levels making a causal

1146
00:48:51,120 --> 00:48:47,920
association between thiomersal and

1147
00:48:53,309 --> 00:48:51,130
vaccines and autism implausible further

1148
00:48:54,779 --> 00:48:53,319
thiomersal is not present in any of the

1149
00:48:58,940 --> 00:48:54,789
vaccines on the current national

1150
00:49:03,509 --> 00:49:01,920
avn states that many of the anti D

1151
00:49:05,609 --> 00:49:03,519
injections recommended for pregnant

1152
00:49:07,319 --> 00:49:05,619
women with a negative blood group who

1153
00:49:08,910 --> 00:49:07,329
have babies with a positive blood group

1154
00:49:11,069 --> 00:49:08,920
and that prevent the mother's immune

1155
00:49:13,140 --> 00:49:11,079
system from making antibodies to the

1156
00:49:16,559 --> 00:49:13,150
baby's positive cells thus preventing

1157
00:49:18,690 --> 00:49:16,569
harm to the baby contain thiomersal they

1158
00:49:21,089 --> 00:49:18,700
also state that late cord clamping and

1159
00:49:22,890 --> 00:49:21,099
lotus birth minimizes or completely

1160
00:49:26,249 --> 00:49:22,900
eliminates the exchange of blood after

1161
00:49:27,809 --> 00:49:26,259
birth the anti D injections used in

1162
00:49:29,989 --> 00:49:27,819
Australia are made from Australian

1163
00:49:32,819 --> 00:49:29,999
plasma and a free from thiomersal

1164
00:49:35,039 --> 00:49:32,829
further late cord clamping and lotus

1165
00:49:37,380 --> 00:49:35,049
birth do not completely eliminate the

1166
00:49:39,390 --> 00:49:37,390
exchange of blood after birth there can

1167
00:49:42,449 --> 00:49:39,400
still be contamination of the maternal

1168
00:49:44,459 --> 00:49:42,459
system by fetal blood there is also an

1169
00:49:47,910 --> 00:49:44,469
increased risk of postpartum hemorrhage

1170
00:49:51,449 --> 00:49:47,920
and fetal jaundice avian provides links

1171
00:49:54,209 --> 00:49:51,459
on its website 268 journal studies that

1172
00:49:57,599 --> 00:49:54,219
avian States support the alleged vaccine

1173
00:49:59,519 --> 00:49:57,609
autism causation however the studies

1174
00:50:01,859 --> 00:49:59,529
mostly described an association between

1175
00:50:03,839 --> 00:50:01,869
autism or other neurological disorders

1176
00:50:06,209 --> 00:50:03,849
with vaccines or other environmental

1177
00:50:09,029 --> 00:50:06,219
exposures but they make no claim of

1178
00:50:10,709 --> 00:50:09,039
causality the subject of any link

1179
00:50:12,359 --> 00:50:10,719
between vaccines and autism has been

1180
00:50:14,249 --> 00:50:12,369
examined by a number of expert

1181
00:50:16,739 --> 00:50:14,259
professional groups including the

1182
00:50:20,039 --> 00:50:16,749
Institute of Medicine none of which have

1183
00:50:22,559 --> 00:50:20,049
substantiated any link a study carried

1184
00:50:24,539 --> 00:50:22,569
out by the Institute of Medicine in 2011

1185
00:50:26,910 --> 00:50:24,549
rejects a causal relationship between

1186
00:50:32,190 --> 00:50:26,920
the measles mumps and rubella MMR

1187
00:50:34,680 --> 00:50:32,200
vaccine and autism avian states that

1188
00:50:37,049 --> 00:50:34,690
vaccine ingredients and vaccines have

1189
00:50:39,510 --> 00:50:37,059
never been tested either individually or

1190
00:50:42,000 --> 00:50:39,520
in combination this statement is

1191
00:50:44,099 --> 00:50:42,010
incorrect as all vaccines available in

1192
00:50:46,470 --> 00:50:44,109
Australia must pass stringent safety

1193
00:50:49,520 --> 00:50:46,480
testing before being approved for use by

1194
00:50:52,680 --> 00:50:49,530
the Therapeutic Goods Administration TGA

1195
00:50:54,450 --> 00:50:52,690
this testing is required by law and is

1196
00:50:56,970 --> 00:50:54,460
usually done over many years during the

1197
00:50:59,430 --> 00:50:56,980
vaccines development there is also

1198
00:51:01,559 --> 00:50:59,440
ongoing review of both vaccine safety

1199
00:51:03,359 --> 00:51:01,569
and efficacy through post marketing

1200
00:51:06,270 --> 00:51:03,369
clinical trials and surveillance of

1201
00:51:08,329 --> 00:51:06,280
disease and vaccine adverse events this

1202
00:51:10,349 --> 00:51:08,339
includes multivalent vaccines and the

1203
00:51:12,569 --> 00:51:10,359
administration of more than one vaccine

1204
00:51:14,220 --> 00:51:12,579
at a time further much of the

1205
00:51:16,109 --> 00:51:14,230
understanding of the safety of vaccine

1206
00:51:17,609 --> 00:51:16,119
components comes from the use of the

1207
00:51:19,829 --> 00:51:17,619
components and their lack of association

1208
00:51:22,319 --> 00:51:19,839
over many years with reported

1209
00:51:24,410 --> 00:51:22,329
significant adverse events for

1210
00:51:26,549 --> 00:51:24,420
components such as mercury and aluminium

1211
00:51:28,440 --> 00:51:26,559
conservative safety limits that most

1212
00:51:30,569 --> 00:51:28,450
ages have been published by a number of

1213
00:51:33,150 --> 00:51:30,579
reputable agencies including the

1214
00:51:36,390 --> 00:51:33,160
Environmental Protection Agency USA and

1215
00:51:38,609 --> 00:51:36,400
the world health organisation avian uses

1216
00:51:41,640 --> 00:51:38,619
data from the United States vaccine

1217
00:51:44,160 --> 00:51:41,650
adverse event reporting system tver on

1218
00:51:46,020 --> 00:51:44,170
its website without qualifying that no

1219
00:51:48,329 --> 00:51:46,030
cause and effect relationship has been

1220
00:51:50,309 --> 00:51:48,339
established this is because tver

1221
00:51:52,260 --> 00:51:50,319
collects data on any adverse event

1222
00:51:54,839 --> 00:51:52,270
following vaccination and it is

1223
00:51:57,510 --> 00:51:54,849
specifically stated that any report of

1224
00:52:00,809 --> 00:51:57,520
an adverse event to Tver is not a causal

1225
00:52:04,140 --> 00:52:00,819
link that a vaccine caused that event on

1226
00:52:07,109 --> 00:52:04,150
the avian website there is the headline

1227
00:52:09,750 --> 00:52:07,119
quote nurses don't trust vaccines and

1228
00:52:11,490 --> 00:52:09,760
quote under which an article from the

1229
00:52:13,740 --> 00:52:11,500
vaccine journal about a study conducted

1230
00:52:15,980 --> 00:52:13,750
into the low rates of vaccinations among

1231
00:52:19,020 --> 00:52:15,990
nurses who treat infants is referenced

1232
00:52:21,660 --> 00:52:19,030
avian summarized the study conducted as

1233
00:52:23,849 --> 00:52:21,670
conveying that a large number of nurses

1234
00:52:25,140 --> 00:52:23,859
are saying no to vaccination because

1235
00:52:28,109 --> 00:52:25,150
they don't trust the way in which

1236
00:52:30,569 --> 00:52:28,119
vaccines have been promoted the study

1237
00:52:33,690 --> 00:52:30,579
was performed on a small group of 25

1238
00:52:35,579 --> 00:52:33,700
nurses in Israel due to the small sample

1239
00:52:37,710 --> 00:52:35,589
size and unique context under which the

1240
00:52:40,140 --> 00:52:37,720
study was conducted the results cannot

1241
00:52:40,940 --> 00:52:40,150
be generalized without caution the

1242
00:52:42,950 --> 00:52:40,950
authors of the

1243
00:52:45,140 --> 00:52:42,960
or suggest that low rates of

1244
00:52:47,960 --> 00:52:45,150
vaccinations among nurses in Israel who

1245
00:52:49,970 --> 00:52:47,970
treat infants are quote embedded deep in

1246
00:52:52,010 --> 00:52:49,980
the mistrust nurses have towards health

1247
00:52:56,390 --> 00:52:52,020
authorities and the nurse's desire for

1248
00:52:58,310 --> 00:52:56,400
autonomy and quote warning the

1249
00:53:00,829 --> 00:52:58,320
Commission has established that avian

1250
00:53:02,620 --> 00:53:00,839
does not provide reliable information in

1251
00:53:05,450 --> 00:53:02,630
relation to certain vaccines and

1252
00:53:07,099 --> 00:53:05,460
vaccinations more generally the

1253
00:53:08,829 --> 00:53:07,109
Commission considers that avians

1254
00:53:10,880 --> 00:53:08,839
dissemination of misleading

1255
00:53:13,520 --> 00:53:10,890
misrepresented and incorrect information

1256
00:53:15,680 --> 00:53:13,530
about vaccination engenders fear and

1257
00:53:17,599 --> 00:53:15,690
alarm and is likely to detrimentally

1258
00:53:20,510 --> 00:53:17,609
affect the clinical management or care

1259
00:53:21,710 --> 00:53:20,520
of its readers given the issues

1260
00:53:24,349 --> 00:53:21,720
identified with the information

1261
00:53:27,109 --> 00:53:24,359
disseminated by avian the Commission

1262
00:53:29,420 --> 00:53:27,119
urges general caution is exercised when

1263
00:53:32,390 --> 00:53:29,430
using avian s website or Facebook page

1264
00:53:34,730 --> 00:53:32,400
to research vaccinations and to consult

1265
00:53:36,680 --> 00:53:34,740
with other reliable sources including

1266
00:53:39,470 --> 00:53:36,690
speaking to a medical practitioner to

1267
00:53:41,120 --> 00:53:39,480
make an informed decision the

1268
00:53:42,980 --> 00:53:41,130
commissioners recommended that avian

1269
00:53:44,870 --> 00:53:42,990
amend its published information with

1270
00:53:45,890 --> 00:53:44,880
regard to the above issues and the

1271
00:54:03,890 --> 00:53:45,900
Commission will monitor the

1272
00:54:14,010 --> 00:54:08,510
you

1273
00:54:17,610 --> 00:54:14,020
who chip into the skeptic zone a little

1274
00:54:20,640 --> 00:54:17,620
bit each week at www skeptics own TV but

1275
00:54:22,710 --> 00:54:20,650
via paypal helps me cover the basic

1276
00:54:24,330 --> 00:54:22,720
costs of putting the show together and

1277
00:54:26,430 --> 00:54:24,340
i'm going to be using a little bit of

1278
00:54:29,220 --> 00:54:26,440
those funds very soon to help me finish

1279
00:54:31,140 --> 00:54:29,230
off the documentary I've been working on

1280
00:54:33,180 --> 00:54:31,150
for quite a while now about 18 months or

1281
00:54:35,160 --> 00:54:33,190
so it's taking a long time I know the

1282
00:54:36,570 --> 00:54:35,170
vaccination Chronicles I'm getting to

1283
00:54:38,940 --> 00:54:36,580
the stage where it's going to be in the

1284
00:54:42,690 --> 00:54:38,950
final edits I've got some more exteriors

1285
00:54:44,850 --> 00:54:42,700
to shoot some voiceover work bits and

1286
00:54:46,050 --> 00:54:44,860
pieces these things take time but I'm

1287
00:54:48,890 --> 00:54:46,060
looking forward to getting that

1288
00:54:53,220 --> 00:54:48,900
documentary out and finished before tam

1289
00:54:55,800 --> 00:54:53,230
this year tam 2014 in Las Vegas can't

1290
00:54:58,470 --> 00:54:55,810
wait to be there can't wait to see dr.

1291
00:55:00,450 --> 00:54:58,480
Karl there and I can't wait to see James

1292
00:55:02,610 --> 00:55:00,460
Randi one more time but for this week

1293
00:55:08,700 --> 00:55:02,620
this is Richard Saunders signing off

1294
00:55:12,000 --> 00:55:08,710
from Sydney Australia you've been

1295
00:55:16,530 --> 00:55:12,010
listening to the skeptic zone visit our

1296
00:55:19,020 --> 00:55:16,540
website at www skeptics on TV for